Season 3 of the Feminist Founders podcast is in full swing, and I’m excited to share my conversation with our second guest, Taina Brown! In the main episode, we dove deep into identity, liberation, and the messiness of life. If you haven’t listened yet, go check it out on your favorite podcast platform—you won’t want to miss it!
As a special treat for newsletter subscribers, Taina and I sat down for a bonus conversation where we explored the intersection of her queer identity and her approach to coaching. It’s a rich, nuanced discussion about how our labels inform the work we do in the world, and the importance of creating safe spaces where all identities can thrive.
You can watch our full chat below or read the transcript if you prefer. Enjoy, and stay tuned for more inspiring conversations this season!
Becky Mollenkamp: Hello, Taina. Thank you for doing bonus content for the newsletter subscribers. I don't know exactly what we're going to talk about, but we didn't talk about the LGBTQ component of your identity when we were talking about identity stuff in the main interview. And so I thought we would just talk about it. I don't know exactly what, except that we were talking a lot about intersectionality. And clearly when we're doing that, that is an important part of the intersecting pieces of your identity. And I wonder how it informs your ideas around liberation and your ideas around coaching.
Taina Brown: With the queer part of myself and how I show up in the world, it definitely informs my ideas around liberation. I remember when I first came out, I was like, I really like labels. Like, why do we need labels? Can we just let it be what it is? The Pisces moon in me was like, let's just go with the flow, y 'all. We love who we love. Whatever. And after getting more connected to other people in that community, I realized that not everyone has the privilege of ‘being out’ in the world and labels are a way that they find safe spaces. Then I was like, that's why. It's important. It's important. And so it's really important for me to label myself, not just as a feminist or intersectional feminist life coach, but as a queer coach, as a woman of color, as a Black woman, as all of that. So that way people who come across my work know that they are safe with me, that this is a safe place for them to let their guard down, to feel like they can truly be who they are and share what's going on with them and help them live the life that they want to live and thrive as opposed to dealing with all the bullshit that so many of us have to deal with day in and day out.
Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah, as a pansexual person myself, who's only more in the last few years been really public with that vs. just sort of in my own close world, I know that it doesn't always mean that someone's safe with someone just because they share an identity, because I wouldn't have been a safe space in the way I now would understand that for someone with a queer identity years ago because that idea of attaching the label and owning the label and being public and forward with the label, despite my own internal feelings around that for a long time of my own knowing and sort of quietly sharing it. There was a real difference in that public piece of it that had me necessarily confronting the places where I still had internalized homophobia that I hadn't dealt with. It became more confrontational for me to have to then unearth more of that and do that work. I think that's an interesting piece of it too. It's not always just an automatic safe space. It's looking for people who've done work. And I don't know what that looks like, but I wonder for you if that brings anything up.
Taina Brown: It definitely does. And I think that's, I'm glad you brought that up because that is a good point. I've definitely had bad experiences in various queer communities or with folks in the LGBTQ+ community. And I think the way that I like to differentiate it is LGBTQ+ or queer is an umbrella and then within that umbrella, there are individuals. So there's how I engage with the umbrella, how I contextualize myself within that community and then how I contextualize myself interpersonally. And so my hope is that when people do come across my stuff because they see a commonality in being out and being queer, that they don't just automatically assume that I'm a safe person, but that they do some digging. They take me through their vetting process to better understand my worldview and how I show up in the world. I don't want to work with gay people who are racist or xenophobic. That's not my ideal client. I don't want to work with you if that's the case. And so, and I think that's why using that word intersectional or intersectionality, I like to use it a lot in any kind of content that I'm putting out there sopeople understand that it's not just a label, it's the active day-to-day dismantling of oppressive systems that makes me queer, that makes me Black. There's a difference between being ‘I'm queer’ and living that out day-to-day. There's a big difference there.
Becky Mollenkamp: And being actively involved in doing the work to create liberation that recognizes that that is about liberation for all people. For all of those varying identities, we want the liberation of all, which definitely does not mean like someone identifying as queer. Like you said, they can still be racist. If I see a rainbow flag, well, then it must mean they're safe for somebody who's a person of color. But you can be a gay man, have that flag, and still not be a safe space for women. You could be a white woman who's got that flag who's not a safe space for a person of color. I think intersectionality is definitely a word I always look for as a cue. I also look for things like liberation because I find often that people aren't talking about liberation unless they really understand these things. I think that's really what I wanted to say is that this piece around this part of your identity is an important part. But yet it has to be connected to the other parts of your identity.
Taina Brown: Yes, it is not how I compartmentalize myself. It is how I bring complexity to how I show up in the world and to how I engage with people. And it's how I also see the complexity in other people and see the nuance there. I hope that I'm doing a good job of not compartmentalizing other people and putting them in boxes, but that I'm able to see the complexity of who they are as human beings, both their faults and their value. That they bring value beyond, or even in spite of, any faults that they might have. And I hope that that is what people see about me too when they come across me as a queer coach or an intersectional feminist coach or whatnot.
Becky Mollenkamp: I do think you do a good job of it as somebody who's on the outside of it, which is why every time we have a conversation, I think it's wonderful and sometimes hard to like put the conversation into a box. I feel like our conversations are always sort of coming at all the things from all the different places and that makes them really nuanced and I think that's what is exciting. Maybe not everyone's ready for that, but I feel like if you're interested in that sort of complex and nuanced look at life, which honestly, that's I think for you and for me, probably our ideal clients are the people who do see life as nuanced and the solutions as nuanced, and not just ‘can you give me a one, two, three solution for making more money.’ And I think that's like where you and I both show up in the world and why we get along really well. And our podcast, Messy Liberation, which I think feels right in this, because the messy piece can be the complicated parts. It speaks to that piece of it's messy asd it's not just a clear-cut box. None of us are simple. We are messy people.
Taina Brown: Messy can be fun. I think sometimes we think about mess and we think, who's going to clean that shit up? But messy can also be fun. Think back to like when you were a child and you just helped cook or bake in the kitchen or doing art projects or playing with your Legos, like your toys. You made a mess, but you had an amazing time doing it. It's not just the work that's messy, but it's the opportunity to engage in pleasure and to have some fun along the way as well.
Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah, I love it. Well, thank you for doing this little bonus conversation and for being my partner in this new podcast that we're doing and for just being awesome. Yeah, thank you. And all the ways to connect with Taina are right here. Wherever you're watching this, they're here. So thank you so much.